Jen Baird
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In this Pinnacle Post interview, Jen Baird - Executive Director at Bayleys - shares her journey as a leader within New Zealand’s property industry. She discusses the challenges and rewards of public service, her approach to navigating complex situations, and the importance of resilience and wellbeing in executive roles. Whether you’re interested in leadership strategies, property sector insights, or personal growth stories from influential professionals, this interview offers valuable perspectives from one of Aotearoa’s respected voices.
Q: What did you want to be when you were growing up?
A: I initially wanted to be a truck driver because my primary school friend, Michelle, wanted to be one, and I thought she was really cool. My parents, however, always thought I'd be a teacher.
There was this moment when I was nine at the Whitianga wharf where I saw this really fancy boat, and I asked my dad what you had to do to own a boat like that. He said, "You have to be the managing director." At that moment, I declared, "That is what I'm going to be!". Of course, as a kid, I didn't truly know what that meant, but my dad thought it was impressive, so it stuck. From about 13 or 14, it was quite clear I'd go into management as I was drawn to business and leadership, and I definitely wasn’t going to be a teacher or lawyer.
Q: You went to the University of Waikato, studying management and majoring marketing and Chinese. You were one of the first people to graduate with that unique degree mix, right? What made you decide to do that?
A: I was always going to do management. I studied Japanese throughout high school, and I remember receiving a school report where my Japanese teacher said I asked too many questions. I was really affronted by that because I sat next to a shy girl in class who would whisper her questions to me, and I'd ask them. I believe asking questions is how you learn, and there's no such thing as asking too many. So I started looking at my options.
A guy called Patrick English came to my school to give a talk about Chinese towards the end of high school. It was an entirely new language, and I was intrigued, thinking, "Why would you do that?" His talk was incredibly inspiring, and I never looked back.
Because I had studied Japanese, Chinese was relatively straightforward for the first year or so as I knew most of the characters and how to learn them. As a spoken language, it's easier than Japanese because the sentence structure is very similar to English. I did well without trying too hard, and there were scholarships because it was so new. This led to amazing trips to China when I was 19 in the 1990s. Patrick English, in fact, has popped up in my life many times since, and he had a massive impact on my path.
Q: Nowadays, languages are encouraged, but back then, it must have been quite odd, right? Especially studying Chinese.
A: Japanese was somewhat common because of tourism in New Zealand, but Chinese was not at all. The Chinese middle class was small, and there wasn't a lot of wealth there yet. China was very exotic and remote. When I went, people thought I'd fallen off the face of the earth. It was a challenging place in the 1990s. We didn't even have email.
I remember arriving in China and figuring out how to get food - you think you know how to speak Chinese until you get there! I also realised I had to book a phone to call home. There was only one phone in my hostel, which had 200 people, and the earliest time I could get was two weeks later. I was 19, the first time I'd ever left the country, and I didn't speak to my parents for two weeks. They probably thought I was dead! I even recall walking past a new internet cafe in Shanghai in '97 and thinking, "What's that? ". We were still using aerograms for goodness sake!
Q: When you finished university, what was your mindset like? You had this unique marketing and Chinese background. Did you know exactly where you wanted to go?
A: After university, I couldn’t get a job using my language skills. I approached many New Zealand companies with ties to China, and one told me, "Look, if you spoke German or Japanese, we'd be interested, but not Chinese". Ironically, that same business now has significant manufacturing operations around Shanghai.
I think I, and maybe it was just me, came out of university thinking I'd be the chief executive of a publicly listed company by the time I was 30. I had a first class honours degree in international management, marketing and Chinese – this makes you feel like you're at the absolute top of the ladder.
You then enter the workforce and quickly realise you're at the bottom. What felt like the top was just the top of a chapter; you finish university, do well, and then you're at the bottom of the next hill to climb.
You then enter the workforce and quickly realise you're at the bottom. What felt like the top was just the top of a chapter; you finish university, do well, and then you're at the bottom of the next hill to climb.
I was fortunate enough to land what was considered an ideal start for management graduates back then which was a job at a multinational in fast moving consumer goods (FMCG). I got a job as a sales rep for Streets ice cream and I even got a brand new Ford Mondeo, which was amazing! It was a great job; I had my hands in freezers for 18 months, and it truly teaches you the reality of business. It makes you work hard, hustle and deal with all sorts of different people.
Streets - Jen’s graduate job.
Q: What made you decide to leave Streets and go into recruitment?
A: I decided it was time to move out of Hamilton. My territory for Streets was from Meremere to Taupō, and I was driving 1,500 kilometres a week - I was constantly in the car. I moved to Auckland and got a job as a recruitment consultant.
It was the hardest job in the world. The thing about recruitment is that when you're selling ice cream, the ice cream doesn't wake up and say, "I'm worth more", but in recruitment, you're selling people, and you're selling them a dream. Changing jobs is a big deal. I was young, 23, and what did I really know about life and people's career needs? I was just trying to make a sale. I didn't last long in recruitment.
The thing about recruitment is that when you're selling ice cream, the ice cream doesn't wake up and say, "I'm worth more", but in recruitment, you're selling people, and you're selling them a dream. Changing jobs is a big deal. I was young, 23, and what did I really know about life and people's career needs? I was just trying to make a sale.
Q: From there you went to the UK for your OE (Overseas Experience)?
A: Just before my recruitment boss was going to have a serious conversation with me about not meeting targets, I bought a one-way ticket to London. That was my OE.
I took the first job that came along, which was sitting on reception for a week. I then got a job with two former senior bankers from Den norske Bank (a Norwegian shipping bank). They had quit their jobs to set up a shipping and maritime logistics private equity fund and needed someone to put together a PowerPoint presentation.
I started on the presentation, and then one day, one of them asked me to send a document to someone. I realised he didn't know how to attach something to an email - it was only the year 2000, and these guys had always had PAs and drivers. My job evolved from just making a PowerPoint to supporting them in getting the fund up and running. I did a whole range of work, and we had a great time for about a year.
Unfortunately, one of the founders was diagnosed with terminal liver cancer, so we had to shut the fund down. As part of that process, they needed to sublet the office. One morning, Nick, the dying founder, introduced me to Dudley, a very posh man who was setting up a PR firm and said to me, “You want to be in PR don’t you?” I said “Yes” without knowing what PR was and Nick told Dudley, "I'll sublet you the office, but you have to hire Jen," and Dudley begrudgingly agreed. The very next morning at 9 am, I started working in PR and the next day I asked him what PR stood for!
That was the beginning of the best relationship I had overseas. Dudley became my absolute best friend. I was 25, he was in his late 60s, and we had a fabulous relationship building that PR firm. I even moved to Scotland and set up an office in Edinburgh for two years, which was fantastic.
Then, I had an epiphany in a church in Venice that it was time to come home.
Q: What happened when you came home?
A: My first role back was Brand and Communications Manager at Radius Health Group. This was an amalgamation of a security company, a rest home company, doctors, and a pharmacy business, it was trying to build a new life-care approach to health. It didn't really work, but it was fun. It also got me back into classic marketing.
I knew my days were numbered there as the business was restructuring so I looked for another job and took one as Marketing Manager at Travelex, but it only lasted three months. They just weren't ready for marketing; it was too soon, and it was going nowhere.
One day, walking to work, I was feeling negative. I told myself, "You cannot walk all the way to work with this negativity in your head. Something is going to happen today to get me out of this job". I got to work, made a coffee, opened my emails, and there was an email from a recruitment consultant about a job at Barfoot & Thompson. That kind of moment, where I decided something is going to happen, has occurred throughout my life. I believe doors are opening everywhere, but most people don't see them because they don't know what they want. You have to be open to opportunities to see them, they really are all around you.
I believe doors are opening everywhere, but most people don't see them because they don't know what they want. You have to be open to opportunities to see them, they really are all around you.
Q: You became Head of Marketing at Barfoot & Thompson, which seems like a significant role for someone quite young. Was it?
A: I didn't think so at the time as I still believed I'd be a chief executive at a publicly listed company by 30, with Theresa Gattung as my role model. On my first day, I walked in and found I had nine staff. I was thought, "Holy s***, what am I going to say to these people? I've never managed a soul in my life!" I ended up spending nearly ten years in that role; I really grew up in that place.
On my first day, I walked in and found I had nine staff. I was thought, "Holy s***, what am I going to say to these people? I've never managed a soul in my life!"
Q: And what made you come back to Hamilton?
A: I had always talked about moving to the country and having a nice life. But there was never a deadline, it was always five years away.
One Christmas, I was listening to a Peter Thiel podcast. He talked about how he invests in early-stage tech businesses by asking them their 10-year goal, then demanding, "How can you deliver that in the next six months?" If they don't have a good answer, he doesn't invest. That was a slap upside the head for me. I thought, "What would it take to move to the country in the next six months? Why am I waiting five years?"
I started looking for a job and saw an opening for Head of Communications and Marketing at Hamilton City Council. I applied, not really thinking I'd get it or even want it. I had an interview with some council staff, and I really liked them - they were not what I expected from council. I realised, "Actually, this looks good." But I wasn't ready and pulled out of the process. Six weeks later, I regretted it. I called HR, and luckily, the job was still available, and I got it.
I was only in that role for five months. Doing communications at council is incredibly challenging, the media loves to hate on council. It was relentless, and media PR wasn't my core skillset like marketing was. I was fortunate to have an amazing team member, Nigel, who handled all the heavy media lifting, which freed me up. In an organisation like council, there are so many things to do, opportunities everywhere so I'd go around collecting things I wanted to be involved in.
Another Christmas came, and I didn't like the job. I wanted the General Manager of Growth job, but the person had only been there a couple of years. I thought, "Okay, I'll give it six months, save up, and become a real estate agent." I spent the summer writing a business plan, my marketing, my advertising - I was ready. The day I got back, the person resigned, and the rest is history. It was a perfect storm, proof that once you know what you want, the door opens.
Q: That General Manager of Growth role sounds like a special role as it enables to be in a position to make real positive change in the public sector. Was that a significant aspect for you?
A: It was the absolute privilege of my life to do that job. I don't know if I'll ever do a job that means as much to me. It was so cool to be involved in city-shaping projects and decisions, ensuring we were doing the right thing with ratepayers' money. People at council get a hard time, but I've never worked with a group more passionate about their beliefs and work. They could all earn significantly more in the private sector but choose to work there because they care.
People at council get a hard time, but I've never worked with a group more passionate about their beliefs and work. They could all earn significantly more in the private sector but choose to work there because they care.
I arrived in that job with 300 staff and a leadership team that was completely better than me. I had to figure out my place as a leader when surrounded by such capable people, which was an amazing experience.
Q: So, from there, did another Christmas lead you back into the real estate world?
A: It did, yes. I wanted to be a chief executive and that would have been an expected trajectory while at council. But it is a very difficult and very public environment to be a leader.
That Christmas, I knew I still wanted to be a chief executive, so I sat down and thought about my transferable skills, what I was good at, what I liked, and what a great job would look like. The week after the holidays, a girlfriend texted me that the Chief Executive at the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand had resigned.
I waited for it to be advertised, but nothing. So I called the recruiter I thought would be recruiting for it, and he said I was on his list to call. I got the job.
Q: What was it like stepping into a Chief Executive role?
A: Wow, what a ride that was! When you're a new Chief Executive, people don't really tell you the parameters. You have no one to ask, "What do I do about this situation?" or "Am I allowed to make this decision?" Looking back, there are things I would have done differently if I'd known I was allowed to. I think that "being allowed to do something" might be my generation or part of being a woman in these spaces. Now, I don't worry so much about what I'm allowed to do; I just do what I think is right, within the law and within my delegated authorities.
When you're a new Chief Executive, people don't really tell you the parameters. You have no one to ask, "What do I do about this situation?" or "Am I allowed to make this decision?"
The Real Estate Institute is a small organisation, but it absolutely punches above its weight. It has 98% of all licensed real estate agents as members, with nearly 100% renewal rates. It runs digital, data, and education businesses, plus standard membership organisation functions such as events and advocacy, all with just 35 people. It was really cool to be back in real estate; I love real estate people and being in the thick of it.
Jen during her time at the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand (REINZ).
Q: Was it hard to leave a Chief Executive role?
A: No, it was time for me to try something new, and I really wanted to be back in a commercial environment. I didn't expect to end up back in a real estate business but after several conversations with the team here at Bayleys about a potential opportunity, it felt like a really exciting place to be. While I might not have the chief executive title, it's a significantly larger job and a significantly larger business. I'm here because they have very ambitious growth plans and are ready to get after it.
Q: Looking back on your career, what would you say are the defining moments that have shaped your path to success?
A: I'm a naturally ambitious person, which is my mother's fault! I love a challenge and am always looking for the next one. That constant striving and the attitude that it's never enough has really set me up for success.
There have also been a series of people who opened doors for me:
• Nick, the dying banker, who introduced me to PR by saying, "You want to be in PR, don't you?".
• Richard Briggs, the Chief Executive of Hamilton City Council, who took a massive punt on me. After only five months in communications and marketing, he offered me the General Manager job with 300 people, trusting me to grow the city. I'll always be grateful to him for that opportunity; I wouldn't be where I am without it.
I believe in taking opportunities that come along and being outside of your comfort zone. All growth happens out there. I use physical challenges, like mountain biking (which I don't particularly enjoy), to remind myself that if I can ride over an obstacle in the forest, then the next week when something hard happens at work, I know that I can ride over that obstacle too.
I believe in taking opportunities that come along and being outside of your comfort zone. All growth happens out there.
I heard a fantastic quote recently that I think will stick with me: "We all dance atop a reservoir of untapped potential". I genuinely believe that. I've spent a lot of time just seeing what's possible, asking, "Why not? Why not me?" I'm good at pushing myself and am pretty resilient, which are important qualities. You have to believe in yourself and take a chance.
I heard a fantastic quote recently that I think will stick with me: "We all dance atop a reservoir of untapped potential". I genuinely believe that.
Q: Would you say that approach-taking on challenges and believing in yourself-is why you've succeeded across different roles and industries?
A: Absolutely. I also had a defining moment while at Barfoot & Thompson. I was on a week-long course in Queenstown where everyone used only their first names, so you didn't know who anyone was. It started on Sunday and on the Thursday, the penny finally dropped: "This is all just about people. This is about how do you get the best out of yourself and how do you get the best out of other people? There is nothing else". There are no organisations, no businesses, just groups of people working together toward common goals, like a hive of honeybees. When I got back to the office, I had a designer create a koru design for my glass partition to remind me every day that it's only about the people.
There are no organisations, no businesses, just groups of people working together toward common goals, like a hive of honeybees.
As a leader, I don't do the work. If we want to double the size of this business, it won't be because of my effort, but because of the effort of the 400 people here. My job is to help them tap into that reservoir of untapped potential within themselves. The real competition isn't external; it's the distractions, the doubt, the terrible things you say to yourself - it's you getting in your own way. The "work" of the job allows us to do the real work, which is the work on ourselves.
When you're a leader, you do everything through people. My people need to believe I have their back and have confidence in me. I don't know everything, and the best ideas aren't ususally mine. I'm good at synthesising and bringing everyone on the journey because everyone wants to feel that what they say matters and that they're contributing to something meaningful. We're just people who want to be loved, appreciated, and do something that matters.
I'm good at synthesising and bringing everyone on the journey because everyone wants to feel that what they say matters and that they're contributing to something meaningful. We're just people who want to be loved, appreciated, and do something that matters.
Q: What are your career highlights and lowlights?
A: Highlights:
• Getting the General Manager job at council and doing that job with those people was the privilege of my life and a massive highlight.
• Seeing the people around me grow. When someone comes and says, "Thank you for doing that," and you realise the impact you have on their life. If I can have one moment with one person where they believe in themselves more because of something I've done or said - that's gold. Work tasks are just another mountain to climb for me; I'm always looking for the next one. The real highlight is the impact you have on other people.
• Being well thought of, being proud of myself and the good I've done for those around me and having a good reputation.
Lowlights:
• Philosophically, I believe you can't have growth without discomfort. You can't get it right all the time. I used to be incredibly hard on myself, feeling that failure was not an option and for me, even a minor misstep was a failure. No one would ever be as hard on me as I am on myself, which is a double-edged sword.
Philosophically, I believe you can't have growth without discomfort. You can't get it right all the time. I used to be incredibly hard on myself, feeling that failure was not an option and for me, even a minor misstep was a failure.
Q: How do you manage the stress and pressure of significant responsibility, and balance it with life outside of work?
A: I lift heavy things. I couldn't function without the gym. Last year was the hardest year of my life, but the routine and structure of looking after my body prevented me from, say, boozing every night. The gym is my time out. I know I need to exercise to be good at my job and to be a sane human.
The gym is also where I realise I'm stronger than I think. It's a literal thing in the gym, but it translates outside too. It's like, "I just lifted that! I'm probably more resilient than I think. I can figure out a way through this. I'll be fine". It's quite meditative.
I also have a good group of friends and I'm quite good at relaxing and chilling out at home. I read, listen to podcasts, and don't watch much TV. In a chaotic working world, I simplify other decisions. For example, I eat pretty much the same thing every day, so I don't have to think about what to have for dinner.
One thing I'm currently learning is to rely on other people and trust them. Even though you sometimes feel alone, you're not. People want to help, they want to be on the team, they want to do meaningful work, and they want to be involved. Not knowing isn't a negative; it's an opportunity to bring others in, so you learn, and they also feel they're having a positive impact.
Being who you are takes some growing up, living through the time when you're desperately trying to prove yourself. But to show up as myself is truly freeing because I don't have to pretend anymore. I'm in a privileged position which allows me to do that, though it's also a mindset.
Q: What are your thoughts on personal brand and network? How important are they?
A: I don't believe in personal brand. I'm not a brand; I'm just myself. I have a reputation, and that's different.
I don't believe in personal brand. I'm not a brand; I'm just myself. I have a reputation, and that's different.
I remember on my third day as General Manager at Hamilton City Council, a long-serving woman at the front desk was retiring. I went down to thank her for her service, and she cried. In that moment, I realised that "Jen Baird" and "the General Manager of Growth" were two entirely separate things. The position carried a lot of gravitas, not me. I believe too many leaders mistake the power of the position for personal power, leading to a crisis of confidence when they leave that job. I tell my team, "If you ever need to use the Executive Director for something, she's yours to use. I'll do whatever you need me to do". Because the role doesn’t belong to me.
I believe too many leaders mistake the power of the position for personal power, leading to a crisis of confidence when they leave that job.
Behind that reputation, the role, is the person I am. At nearly 50, I really like that person. I have a rich inner life and do the things that make me happy. If I lost my reputation and everything, I'd still be fine. That separation, recognising that the position is not me, is vital. I have responsibilities to the position, not the other way around. That helps me kick myself out of my comfort zone too, knowing I have a job to do.
Q: A lot of our readers are young professionals who are thinking about their OE. What advice would you give someone in that position?
A:
• Say yes to every opportunity that comes along – safe ones, of course. Accept all invitations. Do all the things you want to do. You just never know when an opportunity is going to open.
• If you know what you want to do, lucky you. Most people don't. You've just got to see the doors opening.
• Take chances., believe in yourself and back yourself. It's easy to say now, but it's not as hard as you think it is.
• If you believe in yourself, other people will too. My mother always said, "Put a high value on yourself, lovey” because if you don't, nobody else will".
• Confidence is contagious. If you walk into a room confidently, people will think you know what you're doing. It doesn't matter if you don't - nobody really knows what they're doing.
Q: Would you give that same advice to someone specifically wanting to climb the corporate ladder to a Chief Executive role, or would you add anything else?
A: There's no shortcut and leadership is a skill; it's not something people are born with. It's a learned skill, like any other. You've just got to keep putting the work into yourself. Build the skillset and then show it off.
There's no shortcut and leadership is a skill; it's not something people are born with. It's a learned skill, like any other. You've just got to keep putting the work into yourself.
Q: What's next for yourself?
A: Well, I've only been here at Bayleys for three months, so I can't possibly say there's something other than this! We have really ambitious goals here, and I'm very excited about the opportunity and the quality of the people around me. I believe our company already punches above its weight because of our amazing people, but they still sit atop "reservoirs of untapped potential". There's a lot of opportunity in a business that's prepared to take risks, try new things, and get after it in a new way so I'm excited for that journey.
I'm also just going to keep doing good things for myself:
• Keep lifting heavy stuff.
• Putting challenges in front of myself.
• Having a great life.
• Saying yes to opportunities and experiences.
Bayleys Real Estate - where Jen currently works as the Executive Director.
Q: What do you stand for?
A: Probably possibilities. I truly believe all things are possible, and you have to be careful what you wish for because that's how you create the life you want. There's so much opportunity out there, and it's about believing you can and taking action in that direction. I stand for getting after it, challenges, achievement, and adventure.
Q: For young professional readers thinking about their financial futures, what advice or wisdom would you offer?
A: Don't spend it all on having a good time in your twenties! Look, it's important to enjoy yourself, but I grew up in a family where my parents taught us important money lessons early on. I feel like I've been saving for my retirement my whole life. Thinking past the end of the month is really important. You're going to be alive a long time, and while it's important to have a good time now, it's equally important to have a viable future in your 70s. The earlier you start, even if it's just $10 a week into KiwiSaver, the wealthier you'll be.
I also think it's important for young people to stretch themselves socially and intellectually. If someone asked me whether they should buy a house or go overseas, I'd say, "Get on that plane right now". Experiences count so much. You want to have a rich life, not just a rich bank account. Most very wealthy people would choose a rich life any day.
I also think it's important for young people to stretch themselves socially and intellectually. If someone asked me whether they should buy a house or go overseas, I'd say, "Get on that plane right now". Experiences count so much. You want to have a rich life, not just a rich bank account. Most very wealthy people would choose a rich life any day.
Q: What advice would you give your younger self?
A: Don't be so hard on yourself. You are good. You'll be fine. If only she would listen!
Q: If neither time nor resources were a constraint, what ultimate goal or dream would you pursue?
A: Oh, I'd be a country music star! 100%. I was into country music before country music was cool.
About Bayleys Real Estate
Bayleys is New Zealand’s largest full-service real estate agency, specialising in residential, commercial, rural, and lifestyle property. With a nationwide network and a reputation for market expertise, Bayleys delivers innovative solutions and exceptional results for clients across the country.
Visit the website here: https://www.bayleys.co.nz/
About Real Estate Institute of New Zealand (REINZ)
The Real Estate Institute of New Zealand (REINZ) is the professional body representing real estate agents, property managers, and industry professionals across Aotearoa. Committed to promoting high standards, ethical practice, and ongoing professional development, REINZ provides trusted market insights, advocacy, and support for its members.
Visit the website here: https://www.reinz.co.nz/
About Hamilton City Council
Hamilton City Council is dedicated to enhancing the quality of life in Kirikiriroa (Hamilton) through sustainable urban development, innovative community services, and responsible governance. Serving one of New Zealand’s fastest-growing cities, the council invests in infrastructure, parks, events, and initiatives that foster economic growth and cultural vitality.
Visit the website here: https://hamilton.govt.nz/
